tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post2468415777208334774..comments2023-04-11T09:40:17.154-07:00Comments on Bishop David's Afterwords: David Gilletthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08993743504212380971noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-32247809403736330612013-12-09T22:51:50.530-08:002013-12-09T22:51:50.530-08:00Good to have your kind thoughts from New Zealand, ...Good to have your kind thoughts from New Zealand, especially as I look forward to being in your country in February when I'll be staying with three former students of mine, all now clergy in the Church in NZDavid Gilletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993743504212380971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-41432865152618434232013-12-09T17:04:14.882-08:002013-12-09T17:04:14.882-08:00How lovely, David, that you can acknowledge your c...How lovely, David, that you can acknowledge your change of heart in this important matter of human sexuality. I, too, believe that LGBT people are made in the same Image and Likeness of God as heterosexuals. One of the paramount requirements of our God-given human sexuality is that we use it responsibly. This can include either celibacy (if called to it) or a serious commitment to a life partner. As with heterosexual relationships, same-sex relationships also may require careful and responsible choices before commitment to the life-partnership. The Church should be involved in supporting and affirming all such.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-34782377914360115892013-12-04T05:26:54.460-08:002013-12-04T05:26:54.460-08:00JCF (hello again) we are all called to 'discri...JCF (hello again) we are all called to 'discriminate', in the sense of the discernment of the truth God is calling us to live in. Most people I know who hold to the 'traditional' view do not do so out of prejudice or power, but out of careful exploration of Scripture and theology. I am not sure it helps us forward to dismiss these very careful explorations.<br /><br />Also worth noting that in Western culture, it is this view (rather than yours) which now experiences prejudice from those in power.Ian Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08440727613424469331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-11927108557902530942013-12-03T13:22:12.091-08:002013-12-03T13:22:12.091-08:00I quite agree, JCF. It is now so clear to me that ...I quite agree, JCF. It is now so clear to me that this is how God has created us - different, with needing the sex of partner that is appropriate to our creation and gifting - that I do sometimes find it difficult when others don't get it. But then I realise that for a long time I didn't get it so it is important to engage in the debate. I realise that some, maybe many in the LGBT community have become weary of this and I am more than happy in my small way to carry the flame!David Gilletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993743504212380971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-17983241829509937572013-12-03T12:41:05.994-08:002013-12-03T12:41:05.994-08:00"over the past 12 years I have come to see th..."over the past 12 years I have come to see that the kind of faithful same-sex relationships I am meeting are not at all the same as the illicit activity rightly decried in the 7 verses in the scriptures to which reference is made when looking at this subject. It is clear that some are gay and lesbian by the very creation and gifting of God who makes us to live in relationship with the one who meets our needs, as pictured in the Adam and Eve story. There God brings Eve to Adam who recognises with joy that he has been given the one who is a perfect partner for him. For those created with a same-sex orientation the principle of God's gift is the same, but their love and joy is completed in a partnership with one of the same sex."<br /><br />This seems so obvious to so many faithful Christians (LGBT&straight allies alike), that it mystifies us when, in 2013, some Christians still argue (from positions of power&discrimination) against it. I have to trust that, in God's Good Time, the Holy Spirit will lead ALL "into all Truth".JCFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14516376500318551838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-33064262609700226812013-12-03T10:23:01.891-08:002013-12-03T10:23:01.891-08:00Thanks Byron. I am very happy to acknowledge that ...Thanks Byron. I am very happy to acknowledge that different ones of us arrive at the same position from different theological perspectives and then join hands to witness to the inclusive nature of the gospel which we wish to commend to all.David Gilletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993743504212380971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-29266944861240895472013-12-03T10:20:49.768-08:002013-12-03T10:20:49.768-08:00The phrase to which you refer Ian looks forward to...The phrase to which you refer Ian looks forward to the time when we will be free to extend the love and support to gay couples in the same way we have always done to heterosexual couples in marriage. This in no way suggests ignoring the need for repentance of sin, but it means treating gay and straight relationships in exactly the same way as I believe that God creates some to fulfil their love and calling in one way and some in the other.<br /><br />And I do not base my position on same-sex relationships on pastoral considerations but on a clear theology of the human person created in the image of God for realationship, and an understanding of scripture which while facing both gay and straight with the need for repentance when we have transgressed God's law, offers to all the possibility of living in faithful relationship in accord with the nature he has given. Given that basis, pastoral considerations lead me to be deeply saddened and penitent because of the discrepancy with which we have treated straight and gay relationshipsDavid Gilletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993743504212380971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-38692738435137080922013-12-03T05:12:21.299-08:002013-12-03T05:12:21.299-08:00David, thanks for your story, and the moving accou...David, thanks for your story, and the moving account of supportive relationships. I don't really follow your comment about 'offering the love and acceptance of God freely and equally to all'. I don't think for any of us this has involved approval of our ethical stance--otherwise how would any of us have been brought to repentance by the experience of God's love? And have you read Sean Doherty's testimony on the Living Out website?<br /><br />My wider concern is the separation in current debate between pastoral experience and theological reflection, and I think it does to some extent mark the Pilling report. Unless we can give good theological grounding for our pastoral responses, and conversely show how our theology works out pastorally, then it seems to me that both are deficient.Ian Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08440727613424469331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574048134782604093.post-65191401954864641962013-12-02T14:14:54.169-08:002013-12-02T14:14:54.169-08:00Thanks for your post, and your story. Your road to...Thanks for your post, and your story. Your road to empathy is powerfully told, even if we disagree about the Bible (I think the verses are applicable but wrong). <br /><br />Change may come from a coalition of people with different theological views. Byronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05023778745849420397noreply@blogger.com